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Tantra4GayMen Podcast – Episode 7 – Listeners Questions – Ejaculation in Tantric Massage & Sex in Spirituality

Tantra4GayMen Podcast – Episode 7 – Listeners Questions – Ejaculation in Tantric Massage & Sex in Spirituality

 

Transcript

 Hello and welcome to the Tantra for Gay Men podcast hosted by Jason and Ingo Tantra. Here we’re exploring spirituality and personal growth through the practice of Tantra, the body, energy and sex.  Hello there, I’m Jason Tantra and welcome to episode seven of the Tantra for Gay Men podcast hosted by me and my beautif ul husband Ingo Tantra.

 

Today we’re doing listener’s questions and the two questions that we’re answering. The first one is about why is sex an important part of a spiritual practice? Why is sex an important part of a spiritual practice? And the second question, um, we have is, from our list eners, about tantric massage and the role of coming or ejaculation in tantric massage.

 

As you can imagine, Ingo and I are not short of words as we explore those two topics, and be sure to listen to the end where we are going to give you a practice to take away and look at in your day to day life. And we’re going to be talking about the new Tantra for Gay Men Ashram, an active practicing community of Tantra.

 

So if you like what you’re listening to on the podcast, we are now ready to launch to you a way that you can get involved and establish your own tantric practice. Um, listen to the end of the podcast for details of that. I hope you enjoy it. Bye bye. Hello there, beautiful husband. Hello there, beautiful darling.

 

Here we are. Who would have believed it? We have made it all the way to episode seven, would you believe?  Which we are recording in a tropical garden next to our little private pool, actually. We are, where are we, Ingo? We are in Bali. Or Spali, as we like to call it.  Because there’s lots of spas here, which we, which we, we’re doing research.

 

We’re researching venues for future retreats, aren’t we? That’s the excuse. Well, well, well, we have to,  not really actually. But, um, let’s say we have been living the tantric lifestyle. We have. Part of that is to spend. The winter in sunny places where there is community and, and all kinds of things. And we need to justify ourselves for a minute and tell you that we’re working very hard Monday to Friday, nine till five,  making everything happen, including this, including this podcast episode, which really excited to talk about today. 

 

Um, do you know what we’re doing today? Ah yes, uh, questions, right? Listener questions. Let me tell you, because in the first six podcast episodes that we’ve done, we have been very rubbish, Ingo, we’ve been very rubbish. at, um, listening and answering listener questions. So today, episode seven, we’re going to dedicate to, um, episode, uh, to listeners questions.

 

And we’ve got a number of those. I’m not telling you how many we’re going to do because it depends. Um, how much we’ve got time for, but these are questions that have come through the Tantra for Gay Men platform. And, um, these are questions from our community. So if in listening to these listener questions, you would like Ingo and I to, um, dear listener, if you’d like Ingo and I to answer any questions, then look at the community app, community.

 

tundraforgaymen. com, um, and you’ll see a section in there, podcast, discussion, um, and in there you can find, um, the, this post and ask your questions. So Ingo, I think let’s jump straight in. INGO Yes, let’s jump straight in. And the first question, I’m just going to be reading this, the first question  Alain, okay?

 

Alain. Alain. Alain, probably. Alain? Probably from France. Okay. Or Belgium or something. Not Alain or Alain? No, it’s not Alain, it’s Alain. Okay, so Alain’s question is, I would like to better understand the role of sex. In a tantric spiritual practice. Let me just repeat that. I would like to better understand the role of sex in a tantric spiritual practice. 

 

God, do you wanna go first? Where do we start? Um, or do you want me to? Well, um, I’m gonna, let me say a few things. Okay. Uh, but then I’m, I’m going to give to you. Alrighty.  So, um, 

 

keep in mind. That what we are doing in tantra here is we are  aspiring for the highest goal of spirituality, which is awakening  Self realization Whatever you may call it  now  um historically, uh There are you know, as most of you will know dear listeners There are many different paths to that and you could maybe say that there are many paths who are Engage the mind and thought processes. 

 

And there is maybe, you know, another type of paths that do this, um, through your body,  like all of us know, for example, you know, physical yoga and  Um,  other than the way it’s used today, you know, very often just as a fitness thing, uh, in its original form, as you know, it’s a physical way to engage with the body’s energy  to, um, reach, uh, Yes that self realization  What do you mean by self realization because that sounds great, but what does it mean to everyday joe on the street  Let us  Let us put that put that back for a moment because yeah, we’re gonna I I think we’re gonna undulate into that question Uh into that question later.

 

I just wanted to say when it comes to spiritual paths. Uh huh um  You can either try You To go in there via your mind Certain techniques or you can try to go in via your body and tantra actually Radically says  we do this Using our body This has a very specific background  which Goes back Among others to Osho’s thought about a traditional, um, you know, about a traditional tantric pathway that can be used by, uh, us who are, have been conditioned and grew up in the late 20th century  where our minds are over engaged.

 

We do everything with our minds.  Where’s our body really, you know, as, as a vehicle to, to, to, to, to reach, uh, to reach something spiritually. And he actually says, um, I’ll show actually says to.  circumvent  our analytic minds. We need to radically engage with our body to reach a meditative state. That’s our only way out because our minds are so overactive that, uh, for most people, just sitting down, won’t bring you anything else than, you know, sitting down and meditate for most people will won’t bring you anything else than looking at the torches of your mind.

 

So he said, let’s.  Um, let’s let’s let’s flip this and say we are gonna go deeply into our body  and what is  the the The most powerful energy that we have in our body so we can harness and that is sexual energy Yes, but one of the things you’re reminding me of yeah, because I think we might be in danger of making an assumption  Of believing that everybody’s coming to tantra for the same reason.

 

Yes. And I think actually there’s various different reasons why people come to tantra. Let me just name just a few of those. So some people, some couples will come to tantra because they’ve been maybe in relationship for a while and they think tantra is going to give them some better sex techniques, maybe some better intimacy, some better connection.

 

And yes, it can do that.  I think, um, also in our audience, men will come to Tantra, it may be they have a partner at home, it may be that they’re single, maybe they have various partners at home, um, but they will come to Tantra for their own personal reason around wanting to have better sex. wanting to learn techniques, wanting to have better orgasms and whilst those two things I’m talking about actually happen in Tantra, there’s, it’s, it’s still not yet pointing to the spiritual reason, but actually you could argue that both of those are spiritual  actions, spiritual wants as well.

 

Well, well, well, um, I would say it’s true that you can do tantra for many many different reasons. Yes, and that’s the that’s the absolute beauty of it You know, you you could for example do tantra Um, from a purely, you know, for, let’s say, psychological reasons to, to  enhance your intimacy, to work through psychological blocks, to improve your partnership, all of these things  that are not necessarily necessarily  Spiritual and it’s absolutely legit to do Tantra only for that It’s just that I understood our last question in a way.

 

What is the specific link to spirituality? Do you see what I mean? Well, and I guess it What I’m trying to say is as it started depends on somebody’s starting point. So people are Understand or interpret spirituality differently, and I think you and I have a unique way of understanding spirituality That’s was where I was referencing my previous question because I’m not sure that everybody listening may understand what self realization means that might be kind of confusing to some people because Different people what we’ve seen over the years different people come to Tantra for different reasons You Thinking that it’s wrapped up as spirituality.

 

For example, you know, I make the joke of, you know, what makes something spiritual? An Enya CD and, like, a candle. But, and I think people’s interpretations of what spirituality is, is a good lead in to this question because it’s different for different people. How many people, Ingo, have we seen come to Tantra with a clear idea  Of their exact goal for a spiritual awakening.

 

I haven’t seen it.  I’ve seen people interested intrigued curious  well, um  so  Let me say about well, let me say about a few things about awakening. So  This is a really really really difficult topic because  Um awakening. Yes  Let me just rattle off almost You  a few elements of the definition of awakening, which comes from traditional Tantra, you know, as taught by Christopher Wallace and so on.

 

And when we talk about awakening, we, you know, we talk about, um,  a very, very radical shift in the way of how you perceive the world, yourself, the relationship between that and everything else. And this radical shift  has. Several elements and they, they mainly each of these elements is actually, you could see it as shedding of a deeply seated, uh, mode of perception that we are usually, you know, conditioned into.

 

And  so just to rattle these off basically. So, uh,  one of these modes of perception is that we think that we are our socially conditioned self.  And actually we are not  another one of those is that This is a very very difficult to understand one if you haven’t you know to understand if you if you haven’t Experienced this but we usually think That we are our concepts.

 

We live in a conceptual world We don’t perceive Reality as it is, but we are rather perceive it our concepts our projections Whatever, you know a third one is You  That we usually perceive ourselves as  beings as entities that are separate. Uh, from the rest of reality,  whilst from an ultimate view, there is no such separation. 

 

And it’s all about, uh, you know, in, in, in, and then there are, there are more points that are more arcane, but what I want to, and I think, you know, I think each of these points  probably,  uh, uh, deserves.  At least one more podcast episode or several and I think as this podcast goes on into the future we are gonna Go more into that because it’s fascinating.

 

But what I wanted to say is is  all of these points  These experiences  These experiences are beyond the analytic mind There are experiences that  Literally transcend the mode of experiencing that people are used to.  So  you can, you can listen to these explanations.  You you could you could read them, you know printed  and they might just be words for you  or dear listener  You might hear this when I say  You know separation It’s just an illusion  You are  there is no such thing as you and other  there’s only one  when I say this  Dear listener  does something click? 

 

Do you  just, do you feel something? Oh yes. This is what he is referring to because I have experienced this.  And now I come to this thing.  Many people  who are in, um, spiritual, uh, spiritual practice, they,  they’re longing for something.  And there’s one theory that says they’re longing for what they have already experienced as a glimpse in a dream, in a meditation somewhere.

 

And actually, I think I said that in another podcast, uh, many people get to these glimpses, uh, in one of our retreats. So once you have had this glimpse of what is possible and  felt how beyond this really is,  then.  All of these  texts, explanations through language about awakening, they then start to talk to you beyond the text.

 

They start to ignite a flame in you.  And then you’ve got,  uh, your own  deep motivation to practice because you know what’s possible. So how is this leading into answering the question what you’re saying here that just how would you summarize that?  Yeah, I’m saying this because you said, you know people come to Tantra with different kinds of motivations Yes, and I’m like, okay, you know some people Some people come there, you know, some, some people come and say, okay, I just want to,  uh, improve my relationships.

 

I want to improve my sex. I want to improve my orgasm and so on. And that’s absolutely legit. Yes.  But why don’t they just choose a sex therapy or something like that? Why Tantra?  And now the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the fascinating thing is that many people actually come to us.  With this motivation, mmm, I want to improve all of these things, but I also know that there is something more I just know well and I also let’s I want to talk about that bit for a moment.

 

Yes, because I feel  that  People can feel something that they can’t put words to yes Exactly, and it’s like the the soul has some like awakening or some actually the word I would use we recognition It has some recognition that in the practices that we offer people and in the experiences that they have  They could be classed as orgasmic ecstatic blissful But actually, there’s also another layer, which I feel the soul recognizes as home, which is beyond any form of religion, beyond any form of mental construct, before, beyond any ideas, there’s, there’s what I call this sense of knowing, knowing that part of you has arrived home, or actually, more correctly for me, part of you recognizes something, you recognize the, the Essence of something that’s beyond words and so if I’m wheeling that back into the question Around the question was about um, what is the role of sex in a tantric spiritual practice for me?

 

Sex plays a part for various reasons. One,  it’s one of the most powerful ways and quick ways to get you out of your mind. Like you said, Ingo, before in your sharing, that there’s a way, you know, sex plays a part. And sexual energy. So if you think about when you are in sex with somebody, maybe you’re getting your bits stroked.

 

I’m saying bits so that all the social media engines don’t block our  posts on this. When you’re getting your bits stroked and you’re feeling these really intense body sensations.  There’s something for me about following and tracking those. So when you’re feeling like you’re in an orgasmic state or in an ecstatic state, how can you let go of the mind activity and follow into the sensation deeply and profoundly?

 

And for me, What then goes into a tantric spiritual practice is the experience in the sensations just as one aspect of this so what I mean by that is say you’re Crying out for God in a hugely ecstatic Orgasmic experience it feels like the whole world and you’re just like completely gone in that experience completely in every sensation. 

 

There’s more truth in that experience than maybe in the whole of the day that you’ve had leading up to your point. As you said Ingo, you know we live in a world where we’re permanently in our mind. Yes. Permanently analyzing, permanently contrasting and comparing and analyzing And yet for that one moment, when you’re in that experience, you’re beyond your day to day self, you’re beyond your normal mode of operating, you’re beyond you, you know, the you, as you said, you used the word constructs  around identity, you’re beyond all of that, it’s, there’s like a freedom, there’s like a liberation in  that.

 

This is really, really beautiful, um, the way you are saying this, because there’s this points. Um, two, two things. So the first one, you know, that, that you mentioned is, um,  it’s the very, very simple fact that  engaging with your sexual energy in a certain kind of way, which is mainly through.  Extending your orgasm, uh, moving the orgasmic energy through your body with certain techniques, all these things that we do in Tantra,  this  at least, you know, in, in the very first part of the tantric path, this is used to trigger what we call a glimpse and a glimpse is this, this.

 

For just a split second it is for just a split second for most people you could call it satori you could call it Samadhi  It’s this  glimpse of a recognition of your true nature you  know that you’re not separate that you’re not concept that you’re not what you are socially conditioned and That that you’re basically, you know, you’re fused with the absolute so to speak.

 

It’s it’s beyond words You And once you have had that glimpse, then everything changes in your life. And then the question is, how do I engage with this, this different way of being and how do I make this more permanent? And all of these, these, these kinds of questions.  And, um,  yeah. And what I found interesting, you know, the more I study, uh, wisdom traditions of this world, you just mentioned the word, uh, Um, sensation.

 

Mm-Hmm. . And this is just so, so, so important. Mm. You know, dear.  Have you ever done, for example, Vipasana?  You know, Vipasana a very, very,  uh, simple, a technically simple Mm-Hmm. system to  reach  a realization. Mm-Hmm. through a certain kind of meditation. Mm mm You know, ma mainly used in, in, you know, used in Teta Buddhism.

 

Mm.  And if you have done vipassana, you will know  that the actual thing you engage with when you’re meditating in vipassana is  sensation It’s all about radically engaging with sensation  if you  um,  if you take a minute and Just sit back and feel into yourself.  Let yourself fall into  the sensations in your body. 

 

You always realize how much of your waking day you are actually not connected to those sensations. Mm-Hmm. , you know, uh, we, we, we, we, we tend to be in our mind and not present and, and, and all of that.  So. In, you know, in, in Buddhism, in,  you know, in, in all the meditative traditions of the world, sensation is something to engage to.

 

And what I love about Tantra is  it radically, radically, radically.  Engages with sensation because some of the strongest sensation weeks we can create in our body obviously are sexual sensations and how can we really really really be in them and really engage with them and  That’s you know Empirically seen it many many many times then  At some point leads to this glimpse and then people are wow.

 

Ah, this is what all of this is about. Beautiful.  So, let’s close on this question with just one final exploration around sex. Why sex? Why not sensation? You know,  and for me,  I think there’s other reasons why sex one because it’s controversial. Like sex is a hugely controversial subject for people. It’s hugely complicated.

 

It’s hugely Amazing and rubbish and triggering and, you know, it’s been used to control, to manipulate, to abuse, to be powerful. It’s been used, and for me, I think Tantra is, and again I might be, um,  I might be not knowing enough, but for me Tantra is probably one of the only practices that truly celebrates sex beyond the, the sharing of sex with another.

 

So for me, you know your relationship with sex we talk about the three relationships in Tantra I don’t think we’ve talked about this yet. No, that would be another podcast. Yes, but let me talk about it briefly here The three relationships are with you in relationship to sex is your relationship with sex with yourself Your body and what you feel Then there’s the relationship with the other or others that you’re engaging with in sex.

 

Mm hmm. And then there’s the third one, which is your relationship with the divine, with the mystical, with the, you know, whatever, whatever it is you believe in that’s out there, energy fields, realms, whatever language structures you want to. And these three relationships, sex has a relationship with each other.

 

each three of these different aspects as individual parts of a spiritual practice.  Super, super beautiful. And, um,  I, I, I’ve got some more comments and say it do it. So, you know, um,  the, the, the thing with sex is that it’s, you know, it’s, it’s the strongest energy that we have in our body, but at the same time.

 

It’s also the energy that is the strongest yes inscribed and and and suppressed yes You know by politics by our upbringing by by our conditioning throughout our upbringing I mean who  I mean I have yet to see the person who is sexually totally free and, and most of us, we in, in, in sex, we play out all of these, all of the conditioning, all of our upbringing that we have brought up to.

 

Let me just add in one insertion. Social media hates sex. Look how much trouble we’ve had with social media trying to talk about sexuality and tantra.  Yes, uh, that’s just that’s just one, you know, social media is just one aspect of this  Uh these forces that  Condition us to not, to not really  live a liberated sexual energy.

 

And here comes the point, here comes the point. So,  okay, if, um, if in time, if in awakening  one, Uh, one thing you need to do, one, one objective is to shed the illusion that you are your social conditioning, your persona, so to speak. If that is one aspect of awakening,  then  what better way to do it?  To engage, you know, what better way to deconstruct that within yourself than through sex?

 

Because for most people including myself,  uh  The way we do sex and the the question of can we do that differently? Goes right into the the core of Of,  of how, how I was socially conditioned Mm-Hmm. During my childhood Mm-Hmm. And during my awakening as a gay man Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. and, and, and all of these kinds of things.

 

And that goes right to the core. The, it’s really, really nitty gritty. And if I can undo that Mm-Hmm.  , then I, I, it, it has this ripple effect because it, it, it, it, it makes me really call into question so many other things that I was conditioned to do. So. Um, I posit here that  undoing the way you do sex and liberating your sex has actually very, very much to do of shedding the illusion that you are what you are socially conditioned to be.

 

And that is an aspect of awakening. Yes.  I want to say something else about sex whilst we’re here. Yeah. You’ve completely triggered me, Ingo. Good. I have got more to say. We’ve got excited. I’m going to come back. I’m just going to do Alain today. But um, the other thing I want to say is that sex is both a physical human thing as well as a spiritual thing.

 

And I feel that sex is the bridge between your physicality, your human experience and your spiritual, your soul experience. And this is the reason why sex plays an active part in Tantra because it brings the human physical experience together with the soul spiritual experience. It’s the place that they both meet.

 

Let me just explain that a little bit. So we know that if we were to spend a year in silent meditation practice, we would hit a point where we start to get into experiences and realms of bliss, of expansion, of oneness with everything, of knowing who we are beyond our conditioned human self. We would experience ourselves beyond the identity of being a small person, a small self.

 

We would experience ourself within everything. sexual energy is a physical thing. It’s a physiological thing. It happens in this body. I am not my body, but I’m in a body. I am not my mind, but my mind is running and it computes things. My soul is residing and using the mind as the computer and using the body to be here on earth and to have this human experience.

 

When I engage my sexual energy, that opens me to The same states of meditation, the same states of experiencing myself beyond Mm-Hmm. . That is blissful. That is loving that it is. Yeah, exactly. Expansion. And if I use like breath techniques and I use, um, other physiological techniques, I can expand my energy, my experience of myself beyond my human day-to-day, small mind self.

 

And that’s for me is another key reason why sex is critical part of a tantric or I wouldn’t even say tantric I would say of a spiritual practice. Yeah, that is called tantra yes, and that’s that and this then completely links into the One third reason yeah to mention. Uh huh. So  Um, which is  why is partnered practice partnered sexual practice?

 

Yes. Uh, so important because it has that element of fusion. So again, if. If one aspect of awakening is  to realize  that you are not separate  from anything.  So the way, one way to get to this realization is to deliberately play with experiences that  almost blur the boundaries. Of what you what what you experience as yourself and what you experience as other And we have you know that those of you who have done  Workshops, uh deeper workshops with us actually will know There are a lot of  techniques where you visualize your sexual, you know, in sexual practice, you visualize your sexual energies as not going through two bodies, but going through one body.

 

Yeah. Being one. Yes. You breathe as one. Yes. You, you orgasm as one. Yes, and you you you you you you you arouse as one. Yes, and there can be These experiences in there that  it’s it’s it’s the boundaries of your body Dissolve and you you become like one with the partner. Mm hmm and this experience really directly directly  Does something with your system? 

 

It does its little  contribution of deconstructing The illusion that any experience can just be this is me. This is other but actually it’s different I can experience myself already as one with a partner in the sexual. So what does that mean? Can I? Can I then experience myself as one not just with my partner, but could I experience myself as one with a group?

 

Yes, there are techniques another podcast. Can I experience myself as one with all of existence all of the universe? And there we get into that You know that aspect of awakening of of no separation as an Experience and this is you know, this all these techniques they they they they lead into there and that’s why I love them so much  Beautiful. 

 

Wow. We’ve done real justice to this question ingo  The question was I would like to better understand the role of sex in a tantric spiritual practice I think we have absolutely answered that one. We’ve absolutely Absolutely  Thank you, Alain. Is that how you pronounced it? Alain. Alain. Alain. That’s my educated husband Ingo pronouncing it correctly.

 

Thank you for the question, Alain. And I hope you’re listening to this. And I hope, I actually hope to get to know you at some point. So listen, we’re going to go for question two. Question two is from Tim.  And he says that he’s had several massages But the tantric massage looks like it is just better for an overall experience I do understand that having an orgasm is not the goal.

 

So i’m very curious to know more. So let me just repeat that several Massages, but the tantric massage looks like it is just better for an overall experience I do understand that having an orgasm is not the goal. So i’m very curious to know more you  So these are two questions. Well, so for me this was this opens up  a  Can we do it in 15 minutes a massive topic Yeah, so for me in the Tantra that you and I teach Ingo we have five different tantric massages each one with a different purpose and a different intention  And let me just rattle through those very, very quickly.

 

And I also think there’s a, this also opens up another question for me about the difference between conscious sexuality and tantra, because I think there’s a difference between the two.  And also the difference between a erotic massage. So nothing wrong with that going to be, have your body adored for 90 minutes with hot oil, beautiful gifted hands that work all over your body, incorporate your sexual energy, bring you to the most amazing orgasm and climax.

 

What is not to love? That is an amazing erotic and massage experience. That is not the same intention as a tantric massage. And I think, Often the world blurs using Tantra as a code word for sexual or erotic, whereas tantric massage may include, does include erotic energy, but the intention is specifically different. 

 

So five tantric massages very quickly. So the first one that we teach is a Taoist energy massage. And the reason for doing that is so that the receiver can experience many different subtle energies in their body and can also integrate their erotic energy. and begin to expand the way that they may experience their  erotic energy beyond their cock.

 

Yeah. That they may be able to experience erotic energy expanded through their whole body and the real. Interesting part there is about subtlety, being able to really feel the subtle energies in your, in your body. So that’s massage number one. Massage number two is the multi orgasmic  massage, which is about starting to take you into orgasmic states and then learning to transmute that energy.

 

Into from a sexual energy. So it’s like building up building up the energy for you know, one two three hours Maybe one and a half hours. It’s incredibly beautiful and then using this clench and hold method As written by, you know, joseph kramer body electric mantak chia multi orgasmic, ma’am transmuting that into a spiritual experience and when we facilitated that people have had all kinds of amazing experiences, that’s Massage number two grab them off the ceiling afterwards  Massage number three is about anal massage and actually what we haven’t even begun to talk about is the polarity between masculine energy  and feminine energy.

 

That’s going to come up in a in a different podcast. Yes. Feminine energy is all about emotions, love, nurturing, um, Um, it’s about, um, receptivity, it’s about holding, it’s about the container. And we believe in Tantra, all of that is held in your ass and anal healing massage as a way to go through deep embodied emotional release through your body.

 

And you know, Ingo, when we facilitated that, that’s been hugely powerful for people, hugely cathartic, hugely healing for people. Uh, yeah, I just wanted to add FYI.  These are metaphors masculine and feminine for two types of energies that we all have it has nothing nothing to do with male and female Nothing to do with gender nothing to do with gender.

 

It’s like black and white, but it’s a it’s an it’s it’s a specific type of energy that yes  Can be accessed when we massage the, the, the pelvic area, you know, your, your, uh, uh, muscles that are accessed through your, your, um, anal area plus prostate and so on. Yes. It’s, it’s, it’s quite an experience. So that’s massage number three.

 

Massage number four. It’s actually the harmonization of both the masculine erotic energy and the feminine arse energy and learning to hold both of those energies inside you. That’s massage number four. Massage number five is looking at the chakra system. And being able to move erotic sexual energy to each chakra.

 

Would you believe there is an orgasm inside every single chakra that is different to the others? Um, that is, um, a chakra tantric chakra massage. So there are five different tantric massages with very different purposes. And not many people are going to know that. So for you, dear listeners, when people are talking about, um. 

 

Tantric massage and they’re just on about like one you could go actually there’s five Jason and Ingo said there’s five tantric massages so I just wanted to lay out the the landscape of the of those tantric massages and Back to the question. I think this answers  the question really really well because  As you can see is each of those massages is basically a training.

 

Trains a certain, you know, a capability. Yes. Um, for example, a capability to, to, to, to use your orgasm in a different way. So these are basically training grounds to have this. It’s just like a meditation, like, like in a meditation, you train your capability to be with certain, you know, states and all of that.

 

So. These massages you do them many times  And they develop they become deeper and deeper and you basically train For example your capability of being with orgasmic energy without ejaculating and such So I want to, again, just add in a little bit more. So I think there’s something about being very clear what your intention is for going to have a tantric massage slash erotic massage.

 

I believe there is absolutely nothing wrong with finding a skilled body worker that knows how to take you into ecstatic, orgasmic states and to have the most beautiful, beautiful ejaculation, the release, the tension, the, Oh my God, feeling that lasts for hours afterwards as if you’re buzzing. I totally celebrate that as a beautiful thing to have.

 

And the difference, um, and because the reason I named that is because there’s sometimes in Tantra circles. Um, that’s what I call the anti cum brigade or the anti ejaculation brigade. Um, and you know, we know a fact of life for men, and I think it’s different for women. I’m not wholly sure, but we know for men that if you come, you lose your energy.

 

As you get older, you lose your energy for days, if not weeks. Um, and that’s just a fact of life. That’s just how it works. What we’re doing in Tantra is learning to harness. that sexual energy. We’re looking to expand that. We’re looking for you to build the container, the feminine, would you believe, to actually hold more of your erotic energy and to learn how to, one, transmute that into spiritual experiences, two, be able to transmute that into your experience.

 

So, you know, Inga, you’ll remember, you know, when we’ve been in orgasmic tantric orgasmic massage where we’ve not Come and you hold this orgasmic state for days, weeks afterwards,  and the world looks more blissful. It looks more joyful. There’s more colors in the world. The world feels more vibrant. And so, you know, one of the pathways through this practice of Tantra is about making the choice to hold your sexual energy, i.

 

  1. not come. and learn how to hold that, and it’s a bit like riding a bucking bronco through life. Learning how to like ride that bucking bronco through that sexual energy, and integrate that into your day to day, and not choosing the, the, to release that all, all of the time. Because there is an addiction, you know, most people think.

 

That sex begins and ends with ejaculation and actually, what would it be like if sex did, where if ejaculation wasn’t a goal or an end point, but was, you know, or maybe didn’t even happen. It’s like, you know, if you had a month of not, of having sex  with no ejaculation, What would that look like? And what you’ll suddenly come up against, which you talked about in the beginning of the podcast, Ingo, you’ll start to talk about our conditioning.

 

We’ve been conditioned that sex begins or sex ends with ejaculation. That’s the end point. And we can be addicted to that. Yes, absolutely. But that’s all conditioning. Yes. And one of the things I love in a Tantra retreat is because the invitation, very strong invitation is to choose not to ejaculate for the whole week.

 

People then start to have sexual experiences with each other that don’t end in ejaculation and the week’s energies changes their world. Yeah.  Beautifully explained. This really answers the question. So the, you know, the shot would be. Uh, Tim asks, you know, I have heard that tantra is not about orgasm. Yeah.

 

Um, so It’s not about orgasm in the conventional sense with uh, you know having ejaculation and having an orgasm that is maybe How much is you know, how long is the average orgasm, you know, 20 seconds 40 seconds, whatever it is Uh, it’s it’s really not about that not about that conventional orgasm, but then beyond that Tantra is totally about orgasm because it’s about a different version of orgasm that can, you know, that is the doorway into so many things, the doorway into, into, into states. 

 

You know that that you never know existed for me actually it has been so I think this starts to lean into the gift that We would give our listeners this week and go. Yeah, and for me, it’s more of a Exploration around what would your sex look like if you made the choice not to come?  And I would invite you to experiment with even choosing not to come, maybe two or three times, you know, over the course of one, two, three weeks and look to see how it changes the day after.

 

It’s like, imagine you’ve had sex with somebody, you had amazing sex and you’re like, actually before we go into this, I’m going to make a choice not to come and I’m going to hold that energy. And then you go into the next day, notice how the world looks.  And I’d love to hear some of your feedback, um, please jump into the, uh, into the, um,  the community platform and share with us under the podcast discussion section, your, your, um, feedback on that, because I would be really, really fascinated to hear about that.

 

So again, we are saying. Choose not to come but choose sex and choose stimulation. Yes, so it’s not about having no sex. It’s about Having lots of stimulation. Yes, whether that’s with yourself or with a partner or partners or partners and just just Yeah, just choosing not to come. Yes, and Then in in the especially in the 24 hours afterwards to be really mindful about  What does it feel like to be in your body  Where’s your energy and and and you might be really really surprised You know when you listen to that beautiful Yeah other thing we’re gonna talk about before we finish today’s podcast So ingo what’s happening on july the first  on july the first our big new project  called The ashram called the ashram what’s an ashram in go  so an ashram.

 

Uh huh  An ashram is a place Where people come together in loving community  to practice together with the goal of  spiritual advancement self realization awakening  Personal development. Yeah, that’s what we are creating. So we talk about our platform community. tantraforgaymen. com On the 1st of july that is going to be transmuting itself into a An ashram and in this ashram, we are going to have a program um and The basically the ashram is chopped up into semesters or terms.

 

So what I know already is like for the first two, three months, we are going to be exploring the topic of orgasm in detail. And there are going to be weekly video lectures. And And practices for you to do at home. They’re also going to be practice groups to do these practices online with our Ashram facilitators, um, people, men that have studied with us in our teacher and coach training and completed our diploma in Tantra.

 

And also you’re going to get me and Ingo live. We are going to be reviewing those practices with you every six to eight weeks. Um, And as an additional time, we’re also going to look to help you integrate those experiences that you’re having into a spiritual practice through our spiritual inquiry sessions, or for the Americans listening, spiritual inquiry sessions.

 

So the ashram is going to be 42 a month, um, and we are going to guide you through integrating a tantric practice into your day to day life through the Tantra Ashram starting on July the 1st and we’d love to welcome you in there. Yeah. And the beautiful thing is, um, you know, you can do this from everywhere, no matter where you live,  uh, this is this, the feeling will be very, very much doing this in a community, in a group that goes through these processes together.

 

It’s like. Like studying Yes. Together. Yes. Like going through school with Yes. With a group of really loving people. So you will, yes. You’ll make deep friendships. You will. And it’s very, very practical. Many life sessions, uh, these kinds of things. And, and the third thing is that, um, you will, you know, you will get time with Jason and me.

 

Mm-Hmm. like we, we will personally. Guide each of you an active practicing engaged community of men Practicing Tantra together all over the world. That’s what an ashram is. Yes the Tantra for gay men ashram. Yeah, beautiful Thank you Ingo.  This brings us to the end of our podcast today Ingo We managed more questions than I thought we actually managed to answer to listener questions and we will come back in the next episode in a future episode with more listener questions.

 

And I can’t even remember off the top of the head what the topic is for the next podcast. I can’t either. So we’re not going to commit to that, but episode eight will be out in two weeks time. Okay. Ingo, thank you so much for everything you’ve shared today. Thank you, dear listeners. Thank you for being with us.

 

We love you for,  yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s just really, really lovely. We love you be with all of you and we will see you next time if you’d like to take part in the discussion you can on our platform community Tantra for gay men comm  that’s community Tantra for gay men comm  And have a, uh, click on the podcast on the left hand menu.

 

There you can see all episodes of the Tantra for Gay Men podcast that we’ve released, and also a discussion board where you can share what you’ve listened and ask questions and share your experiences. We’ll see you again in episode eight, and we look forward to seeing you then. Take care now. Bye bye.

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