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Tantra4GayMen Podcast – Episode 06 – Chemsex – High & Horny – Answers in Tantra

In Episode 5 of the Tantra for Gay Men podcast, hosts Jason and Ingo Tantra dive into the topic of chemsex and its alternatives offered by Tantra. With an open and non-judgmental approach, they discuss the reasons many men in the gay community turn to chemsex, such as seeking sexual freedom, overcoming fear of rejection, seeking intimacy, and wanting to feel part of a group. The hosts draw parallels between these desires and the outcomes of practicing Tantra, suggesting that Tantra can provide a healthier, more fulfilling avenue to achieve these same goals. They stress that their aim is not to judge lifestyle choices, but to offer different perspectives and potential solutions for those who may be dissatisfied with their current situation.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the Tantra for Gay Men podcast hosted by Jason and Ingo Tantra. Here we’re exploring spirituality and personal growth through the practice of Tantra, the body, energy and sex.  Hello there, I’m Jason Tantra, and welcome to episode five of the Tantra for Gay Me n podcast,  hosted by me, Jason Tantra, and my beautiful husband, Ingo Tantra.

 

And today we are talking about chemsex, we’re talking about high and horny, and we’re talking about alternatives, where Tantr a can offer you many of the things that people are looking for in chemsex. Hello there, my sweet, beloved husband. Hey, good morning, my darling. Here we are. How are you doing? I’m okay, thank you.

 

Normally I ask you that question, but you got there asking me fi rst. We are looking out on this beautiful sea on this beautiful island, recording episode six of this beautiful podcast.  We have been on Tantra Island for almost  Like two months, haven’t we? Which is Copenhagen in Thailand. We’ve been working very hard though, haven’t we?

 

Oh yeah, we have. But yeah, it’s super inspiring. It’s because, uh, you know, yeah.  So we’ve been working very hard. We’re now on episode six. And today, um, what we’re going to talk about. is, um, the topic of  chemsex and high and horny, and you might ask yourself, well, you know, why would we want to talk about that in relationship to tantra, in relationship to spirituality?

 

And I would say over our years of teaching, I don’t know what you think Ingo, but over our years of teaching, we’ve Um, received many men that have a history of what they would call  chemsex and issues related to that. And having, you know, a, you know, like a decade, two decades of using, um, different substances in sex.

 

What they’re finding is that there’s still a dissatisfaction and also for me, never answered, never provided the answers for the true issues that are kind of underlying the need for chemsex.  I hang over to hang pass hang over to you pass over to you and go, I just wanted to also say, you know, as a kind of warning in this podcast that, you know, both Ingo and I have absolutely no judgments of people’s lifestyle choices or things that they’re doing.

 

Um, quite frankly, it’s none of our business. Um, But what we are here to do is to help show you through these podcasts how the practice of Tantra as a spiritual practice can transform your life into joyful, blissful, happy, fulfilled,  peaceful joy. And, you know, for me, in a men who loves men community, Chemsex is.

 

Um, a huge issue for large numbers of people, and so we’re offering this podcast in the spirit of that, in the spirit of being able to provide some answers, um, or some different ideas to, to this issue. And I’m not saying that chem sex is an issue for everybody, but I think if you’re listening to this podcast Then actually you may be interested in as an issue or you may feel that it’s an issue But also again being very careful with our language Appreciating that it’s not an issue for everybody And if it’s not an issue for you, then maybe skip this podcast and move on equally there may be some Incredibly useful ideas in here and actually that maybe just don’t relate to chem sex themselves You know when we when we prepared this episode, um For me, it’s a little bit difficult to talk about this topic.

 

Why is that very very simply because um You know, if we define chemsex  as, let’s say, sex combined with a very narrow range of, um, substances, mainly, you know, methamphetamine, crystal meth, and a few, you know, a few related substances. Is it crystal meth called tina? Yes, exactly. Yeah.  And it’s, it’s, it’s really that slightly narrow kind of definition.

 

We are, we are not, you know, we are not talking about sex, you know, and alcohol on psychedelics or things like that, but that kind of narrow definition. And I’ve got to start by saying that, uh, I have no experiences, you know, I have no experience with this kind of drugs. I’ve never been interested. Um, in this kind of drug, however,  when we, you know, you probably remember when we started up teaching  Tantra and especially during the years,  we’ve just had so many people who, um, came to us and said, uh, I, you know, as I’m into this, uh, how can Tantra,  uh,  Give me what I’m looking for.

 

And for those people, I would say that the, I would say that the practice of Tantra has been utterly revolutionary for them. Well, I wanted to, to, to  go into that a little bit if you, if you allow me. So because, uh, because then I was like, okay, I need to educate myself a little bit. And I need to, you know, some of these people have become long term students, good friends and talking to them.

 

I found it a few really, really fascinating things came out for me that, that I myself learned about chemsex and this, this is going to sound a little bit provocative. Yes. I was like, there are so many overlaps with Tantra. There’s so many overlaps with Tantra. So for example, yes. Um,  so. Uh, when you, you know,  when you talk to people, why are you engaging in Chemsex?

 

Yes. Um,  I even when you look at these, you know, chemsex websites Mm-Hmm. that, that, uh, summarize all of those studies. Mm-Hmm. , should I just read this out for you? This is, this is you. Really, really fascinating. Yes. Do it. So where, where’s it coming from? Where, where are you getting that from? This is from, uh, an uh, Irish. 

 

It’s men to men dot I E or something like that. It’s basically, you know, uh, sex, uh, counseling, um, you know, these, these kinds of websites, uh, and they list and, and I think they do it really well because this completely reflects, uh, You know, what, what, what I hear when I talk to, to participants,  uh, they list, they have the following lists, men may engage in chem sex for many reasons.

 

Some include, and here it starts for me to become fascinating to feel, to feel more sexually free. Wow. Yeah. To overcome fear of rejection, shame and stigma. Yes.  Wanting better sex that lasts longer. Yes.  Seeking intimacy? Yes. To connect with others? Yes. To feel part of a group or community? Yes. And when I read that, I was like Is that a tantra workshop?

 

Yeah, exactly!  You know?  Yeah, exactly. Is that, is that, that’s exactly what we would write? That’s what I think, exactly. That’s, you know, we, we have written similar things. In, uh, in, in our, um,  in our, um,  uh, cause descriptions. Why would you come to a tantra weekend? So why don’t we just look at those one by one again? 

 

So what’s, what’s the first one on this list? So sexual freedom. So basically what you’re saying is this list of things that they identified are the reasons why. And I say typically in a men who loves men community, reasons why men would engage in chem sex, because they’re looking to feel certain things in their sex.

 

And the first one you listed was Sexual freedom. To feel sexually free. You see, for me,  I perceive at a spiritual level The, the, the soul, the, the part in all of us, our souls are looking to remember who we really are. And for me, that can manifest itself like, as, as like a yearning, as like a, a searching, as seeking a looking.

 

And you know, as we talked about in the the previous podcast, a dissatisfaction with life as it is. So for me, if you’re feeling dissatisfied with life, dissatisfied with your sex, it’s not great. Then I’m guessing that when you’re looking for sexual freedom, then actually chem sex is going to be a really appealing avenue.

 

Well, for me, this, this, this has a lot to do with this, uh, you know, fear of being myself. I remember  before I came to Tantra, um,  You know, I had all these fantasies for me. They were, you know, mainly connected to  having sex in group settings Experimenting with with things that I hadn’t tried out before and all of that, but  I knew that I was wanting to do these.

 

Yes But whenever I started to try this out, I felt uncomfortable. I felt that there was something in me that was judging myself. What was it saying?  Um,  I may be rejected  if I express these.  Uh, desires that may not be a hundred percent,  you know, a hundred percent mainstream and things like that. Because as I hear you say that, there’s almost like a fear of vulnerability, a fear of letting go, a fear of being seen. 

 

And I’m wondering, like in this topic of chemsex, whether chems are being used. Um, to bypass those feelings to launch you into a liberation, like, but my biggest point here is that it’s temporary. Like every time chemsex, you know, people are using chemsex, it’s short lived, it’s temporary, it’s for a number of hours.

 

And actually you’re still left with the same stuff, the same insecurities that you had before using Chemsex. It’s just that the, the chems have taken that away for a period of time to allow you to experience yourself in a slightly different way. Well, um, one thing, uh, again, this is not from, from, from my experience, but what apparently, you know, what crystal meth does, it gives you a high degree of disinhibition.

 

Okay. That means, you know, I,  I, I guess it overrides this voice in you that said, Oh, no, you can’t do that. Oh, God, what is this person gonna say? And, um, but it feels  It feels artificial somehow, right? Because it’s not, it’s, it’s not, you’re not really free. But I also wonder whether one of the hardest things for us to admit as human beings is that we are erotic beings, we are sexual beings, you know, and you look at how many thousands, thousands of year of religion have tried to take us away from that innate freedom that we are erotic. 

 

Beasts and you know, there’s there’s a part of us that’s still animal, you know It was you know, we’re refined and we’re thinking our way and we’re actually there’s still a part of us. That is utter animal yes, but  You know, I think the the solution is not to just this, you know, just override your disinhibition Yes, the the solution is actually to Own that animal part in you and to be totally okay with that and embody it and juice it but I think there’s two things here because I think there’s Part of the journey in tantra.

 

Um, I just want to go back a step where for me chem sex isn’t going to solve those inhibitions that you have, they’re just going to give you a temporary relief. But when you keep using that temporary relief over a decade, it is a route and a pathway of huge amounts of suffering, huge amounts of unhappiness, huge amounts of misery, till you feel like you’re basically imprisoned on a hamster wheel, repeating this cycle, not able to get off.

 

And I believe that Tantra fully and squarely and unashamedly is a practice that can get you off the hamster wheel of repetition and actually help you to embody. shame free, erotic, sexual, beast energy. We’re going to talk about all the other beautiful things. But, but, uh, but, uh, as I would say at a base chakra level, I perceive that we as a community have, I mean, you know, you could argue this is why porn is so popular.

 

We have a real, a real issue accepting our animal, erotic, horny energy, and. I think or perceive that the journey of Tantra helps you to undo that shame, undo that guilt, undo that inhibition  and take you into altered states through breathwork, through erotic play, through Or multi orgasmic techniques, you know, you and I Ingo teach a whole bag of stuff that, um, takes people into very altered states.

 

You could argue that they are blissful states similar to chemsex, but actually you’re getting there through your body in a very natural, um, Unharmful and also sustainable way, an integrated way integrated into your day-to-day life. I, I, I wanted to, to, to, to take even a step back from that Uhhuh because for me that, uh, first step of liberation came, came even, you know, it came even earlier.

 

Yes. It was the very simple fact, uh, of stepping into a community where everyone was in the same boat. Yes. I thought I was.  Uh, the only one who wanted to play a little bit and let loose a little bit. Yeah.  And  Uh, all of a sudden, you know, I remember my first, uh, tantra retreats,  all of a sudden we were all in the same boat.

 

We all wanted the same thing, so where there was nothing shameful about it anymore. And for me to  just to know that everyone was sharing this and even sharing, you know, the moments of shame and all of that. Yes. And vulnerability. Yeah. That, that, that made it possible to play with things and all of a sudden it was like.

 

Oh, wow. This feels,  this feels completely natural. Why was this disinhibition there before? Yes. Uh, I just, it was just this thing about  feeling  that  we are all the same in this. Which I’m not alone in this. Well, let me ask you a couple of questions because it feels like what you’re saying is that there is a collective want in this group for exploring freedom and liberation Yes, but I would again even even take it back more to two to two basics.

 

I would say there is a collective  longing to Uh,  to live your sexual desires, rather than feeling that I can only live a very limited sex life, you know? Yes. And also, I think what I’ve really enjoyed in a men who loves men culture, particularly in the last decade, is the way that we’re reframing how we express our sexual energy.

 

We’re reframing how, um, we are. So, for example, you know. Relationships with multi dynamics to them is now much more commonplace. You know, often you’ll find partners that may have a boyfriend, may have lovers, may have another couple that, you know, all kinds of different combinations because I think that even in the last decade we’ve stepped through to more.

 

sexual freedom and liberation, but I perceive that whilst chemsex is still seen as a viable avenue, actually the practice of tantra and this body of work, I think has a liberation and a freedom. And as you said, right at that base chakra level, I think there’s something about the acceptance of us as animals, as beasts, as horny, erotic, you know, creatures that want to fuck, be fucked, and Be utterly explore every dynamic.

 

Well, again, for me, you know, that’s surely incredibly spiritual. That idea. Yeah. I wanted to,  I just, you know, I wanted to say too, it really starts with expressing these desires. Yes, I’m not just expressing them for yourself, but actually expressing them for real when you, you know, in a loving community, when you step in front of, let’s say you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re doing an exercise with someone,  we do all these exercises where it’s about naming your most animalistic  desires. 

 

And then you, you, you develop the sense that really, you know, again, you’re not alone. You are sharing this with so many people. So it loses its,  you know, that, that that’s one very, very simple way to, to undo the shame, uh, at least for, for, for that situation. And then. Yeah, as you said,  we can start to experiment with these things until  they feel actually quite normal.

 

So we don’t have to disinhibit  ourselves anymore. And that for me, you know, when we say on the advertising. that tantra is a pathway to freedom, that’s what we mean, you know, one example of that freedom is expressing your sexual freedom. And also I think what we’ve not said here is expressing sensations in your body, expressing verbally sounds, grunts, moans, whimpers, cries, every single noise that wants to come out, that you’re fully.

 

Meeting every sensation, every, you know, grown and shudder in what I would call totality. And again, I want to throw that back to you, Ingo, because that’s, again, you know, part of the spiritual path. Osho talks about totality. So, um, in Tantra, there are a few principles, right? Yes. Well, uh.  More precisely in Neo Tantra.

 

Yes, and they sound very very Simple, but they’re actually really profound and one of those principles Going back to our show. I would express it like  Totality not perfection. Yes, that means  So many,  you know,  so many of us live with this idea of perfection. I have to be like this in sex, especially in sex.

 

I am, I have to, to, to, to, to be this harder, longer, uh, louder,  uh, more energy, you know, these kinds of things. And that’s, that’s a certain. That’s performance. Image, yeah, an image of ourselves, how we need to perform. And that’s obviously, you know, informed by, by porn, informed by what we think the partner wants to see.

 

Often without actually asking them. Yes. Um, so, so it becomes a performance. And all of these people come to us and say, I feel so much under pressure with sex. Yes. That has really, really come to me. And again, then some people say when I take. When I take drugs I feel that This pressure to perform. Yes is lifted off me or it’s maybe not lifted off me, but actually Through the drug, I’m getting that, you know, infinite horniness for hours, that hardcore energy that I can go for hours, uh, you know, um, without stopping and things like that.

 

But, but that’s, that comes from an idea of performance. I have to be like that to basically, you know, to be, to be accepted. And there is this, this pressure, um, that I put on myself. I have now a show.  The one really, you know, this is, this is a profound thing to meditate on is totality.  So totality means that  whatever you are, be it totally,  do not hold yourself back. 

 

And that comes from, um,  completely opposite mindset than performance, because here all of a sudden  you just need to express what is already there. Yes. You don’t, Come from this idea of oh, I have to I have to please that person. Yes. I’m actually Total. Yeah, I’m total and also in you know, when in In  relationship or in in in partner sex work. 

 

I have always found Since I came to Tantra that, um, the biggest gift that a person can give me is for them to be totally in what they feel already because then it becomes magical then they They let go and then they show something about you know Who they really are in that moment and that’s the opposite of performance And that’s I think what Osho says and for me in you know, when you compare that experience  with what people are experiencing in chemsex It’s almost the same in some way, but there isn’t the, but is the experience in Tantra much truer, like, to yourself as you are in this reality in this moment?

 

What do you think?  Well, for me, yeah, I guess the, the idea is that When you learn to be total in your, in your sex, in your freedom, in your sex, there’s a freedom in that, there’s a liberation, and there’s also like a realness to it, that you haven’t had to leave to experience a very profound part of you.

 

And what I mean by leave is you haven’t had to use chem sex to have an experience outside of your normal day to day reality. Actually, you’re bringing that ecstasy and that bliss and that expanded orgasmic feeling through techniques, through techniques, through changing your psychology, changing your position, changing your mindset, through healing yourself, through liberating yourself, through undoing.

 

Then I think you’re experiencing something greater and when you said earlier, but that chem sex, this is my advert for tantra When you said earlier that you know chem sex lasts for hours tantric sex You know i’ve known in in between us and in other places That last seven or eight hours of utter experiences that are divine and beyond and just utterly incredible that, you know, last have lasted seven, eight hours.

 

This is actually really, really fascinating because,  um,  what people who engage in chem sex, those who I know who. Uh, come to me and say, I want to learn Tantra. What they actually say is, um,  so basically  I feel disinhibited and euphoric and endless energy for a few hours,  but the next and, and I, I, I then can really let go into that total horniness and it feels absolutely amazing in the, in, in, in, in the moment,  but. 

 

The next day,  all of my feeling of, uh, not being worth, uh, being lonely, um, having done something wrong, having done something that’s not right, these will all hit me and they will all come back  and  what. Curse to me is that  when you,  uh, do something that looks disinhibited  from the outside, but in Tantra,  the effect, at least for me and for many, for, for, for many other people that I have seen is the total opposite.

 

Yes. When I let go of my inhibitions and try something tantric container,  I afterwards, there is this overwhelming.  This overwhelming euphoria saying  You can be this  And it feels good and the next day I feel My self worth goes up massively because I feel wow, actually you can be this this is not just A desire or something to be never fulfilled you have actually done it and also I think your relationship with life Yeah, and the world around you and people then is transformed and different yeah, but what I wanted to say in relationship to chemsex is that this strikes me as  Opposite two people do the same thing tantra.

 

We work with our inhibitions and consciously  Try to, to, to, to, to, to work with them, to, to be able to fulfill our sexual desires and to see where we can consciously overcome them. And the result is a feeling of liberation and increased self worth. Yes. Whereas in chemsex, when I, you know, when I, you know, these people who talk to me, I take drugs, I feel completely disinhibited. 

 

Mm hmm. And. Afterwards, I feel, uh, the opposite because my underlying issues of, you know, lack of, you know, whatever I feel is lacking these inhibitions, they’re still there. They don’t get transformed by, by experience, but they’re actually still there. So my, my hunches, they have just been overridden temporarily or something like that.

 

And again, it comes back to what I was saying at the beginning that can set. is temporary and the practice of Tantra, you know, we’ve had people leave a retreat and go that are still affected three months, six months, nine months, not just an energetic level of how they see the world, but also very much in a  Like the psychology of how they’re dealing with life relationships people And it’s almost like I feel like tantra helps people reset or reconsider relationships certain positions in life certain career And knowing like it’s like you come back to this sense of knowing that you have this um  It’s almost like that you, that you know that you are bliss, that you know that you are love, and you know that you’re operating in the world.

 

You’re kind of trying to steer your ship through kind of surrendering to this bliss.  Yeah,  I’m not sure where I’m going with that, but that’s what happens to people for for for the context You know for what we have said, I I feel this bliss comes from in this this kind of bliss There are many types of bliss in Tantra, but this kind of very specific bliss  comes from  Experiencing yourself as  being able to be much, much, much more than, than, than, than you thought you are.

 

And that has to do with this  thing of freedom of working with your inhibitions in a very conscious way. You are, you know. Should we look at number two on your list? I know we yeah, we talked we talked about one and two sexual sexual freedom and to overcome fear of rejection shame And stigma. Well, can I just talk about that for a little bit?

 

Yeah shame. Did you say shame? stigma, yes, and  you said shame and stigma and  Rejection. Rejection. Fear of, yeah. Yeah.  So, again, that could open up huge topics, but what I would say here is I think as a men who loves men community, I think we know we have a relationship with rejection on so many different levels.

 

Um, I think the world is better, but I think some of you listening to this may have experienced rejection from family or from friends about, you know, your sexuality, your, your choices that you make in life, the way that you choose to live your life. Um, some of you may be listening with very traditional family values.

 

very traditional settings and hey, you arrive into the setting of this and you know, you’re, you’re wanting to live your life. You’re feeling called to live your life in a different rule set, different mindset, different, different values. And I think that. It’s really hard to undo rejection, you know, any of you have experienced any form of trauma in your life.

 

Like, for me, I was incessantly bullied at school because I was different. I just was different all of my secondary school. And I think that rejection stays with you. throughout your life, both on a conscious and unconscious level.  And I feel that the work to do, like, it’s really easy to just be with, well, at some point, that rejection becomes normalized.

 

And it becomes a normal way of operating, that you’re feeling that rejection, and you go out into the world with that rejection, kind of like a, a filter, kind of like, you know, like a lens over, over life. And then cam sex. helps you to just take away that rejection for a moment but again I come back to the point that we’ve been repeating it’s only temporary and actually how do you do sometimes the painful work sometimes painful but incredibly freeing I promise you it’s incredibly freeing to undo and and work through and heal the rejection that you’ve experienced in your life and I think There’s also something, and again I’m specifically talking to a men who loves men community, to know that, that, you know, nature, whatever you believe made you, whether you believe in God, Jesus, nature, aliens, I think aliens dropped us off to be quite honest, but it’s like, I think as men who love men, we have this underlying unconsciousness that somehow nature made a mistake, that somehow, I’m, I’m wrong and that there’s something wrong with me and I think again that’s at an unconscious level and sometimes we can attract people that reject us to that to validate that unconscious idea that we are not okay.

 

And I think Tantra is the antidote, um, the anti serum to that, because what it teaches you is to bring you back to your true nature, your true self, and un  I wanna swear, un fucking ashamedly be you. Unashamedly be you. every fucking aspect of you for your total fucking freedom and liberation so you can stretch out to the world, you can stretch out your wings and just feel completely free without anything holding you back. 

 

And I’m just feeling that idea of my soul lifting out, my wings stretching out wide to feel that total liberation and freedom.  And I would argue that Tantra is a pathway to give you that on a permanent level. Whereas Chemsex will only give you temporary,  temporary relieving of the symptoms. If you see what I mean. 

 

Beautiful. I feel goosebumps all over my body when you talk about that. Because, yeah, once you taste this freedom. Yes.  There’s no way back, there’s no way back  and it’s just then a sense of knowing inside of you and it then supersedes like for me, you know, how do you get off chem sex? Well, I think starting to do the work on yourself and then you’ll get to a point where you make decisions around, you know, doing that session that doesn’t really serve me and it just naturally falls away.

 

I think there’s a natural, natural falling away when your consciousness or your awareness grows. And tantra, you know, as the way you described your experiences in go beautifully, they give you those experiences and they fulfill you in a way that other things that you were doing that aren’t sustainable to you naturally fall away.

 

Yes, I with with that I can only you know, I can only use the you know, me not being experienced in in in these kinds of of drugs, I can just use an analogy and the way it happened to me, um,  Which is alcohol,  uh, not, you know, not that I used to drink very much, but I used to, you know, you really like alcohol, like the glass of wine, you know,  things like that on a regular kind of regular basis.

 

And I, well, I used to like the effect  that it brought me with  Tantra. I realized  something opened up, there is something more expansive and.  Once I realized that once I had tasted that it’s not, you know, it’s not that, um, it eclipses alcohol or something, but it’s like  alcohol starts to feel as if it was shutting that down. 

 

Uh, it, it, it’s just the opposite of that and, and bit by bit it, it, it, it took years  that somehow it, it lowered my desire for alcohol and for the, and for the effects really quite a lot over, over all of these years up to a point where now I feel as if with alcohol. I feel as if something was being shut down within myself.

 

Whereas whenever I do Tantra, I feel something opens and I want that to stay open. Beautiful. And I guess, I can only, you know, I guess that might be, might be similar maybe.  Beautiful. What else is on your list, Ingo?  We’re going to get through this list if it kills us. Ah, yes. Wanting better sex that lasts longer.

 

The question of, uh, this is to do with when, you know, especially people tell me this about uh, uh, meth, it’s the, the, the question of energy, to have endless energy to be able to go for, for. Forever and not not to feel tired to feel energized and to last longer. So I think we should talk about that because, and I think we’re going to do a podcast in the future all about multi orgasmic states.

 

But what I want to point to here is for me,  tantra practice is on various different levels or there’s various different lanes. One of those lanes is. I would say catharsis, chaos, bringing up your energy, letting all the energy off. And we do that through active meditations and through group practices, techniques, and through, I think, multi orgasmic techniques.

 

So typically. Um, I’ve been saying this for years. Typically men ejaculate within, um, is it 12 minutes of sexual activity? And chemsex is going to help you go on for hours longer, but so does tantra. And for me, one of the initial lessons in tantra is to learn how to make the choice to not ejaculate.  Now, you know, there’s some in Tantra circles that think ejaculation is the seed of the devil. 

 

My opinion is how can something that feels so good be so wrong?  And we’re going to talk about a whole spiritual aspects of orgasm  in a future podcast. But what I want to point to is this Learning to enter what I call a multi orgasmic state so that you feel in a permanent multi orgasmic state.  I don’t know if you can say something about that too, Ingo.

 

I think this would, uh, almost require Um, another podcast, but what I will say is that,  you know, one, one of the main core like practices of Tantra is  to, to basically unleash  the energy that we carry. Um, in our sexual organs, and that is usually confined to our sexual organs, ie we  experience sex in our penis or something like that, you know, we, we, we don’t experience,  uh, every bit of arousal that we have in our Cock, we don’t usually experience that in all of our body and, and, you know, in, in our toenails and our fingers and, and everywhere.

 

So one of the things I love  is when people discover that their whole body is their cock and that it can become as responsive as their cock. Exactly. But, but, but, but what this. The, the, the, the, the, the deeper, um, the, the, the, the deeper learning in this is, is that we have basically suppressed our sexual energy to for it to be only genital, basically,  and There are these techniques where we can liberate our sexual energy to, you know, tantric expression to freely, freely flow through our body.

 

And there’s a lot to say about that. You talked about the orgasmic corridor and things like that. But the idea is that, that we have this energy already. We just suppress it. To be only genital. Once we liberate it,  we can basically build on that. And that’s one of those reasons why we can go for hours basically on days in Tantra.

 

And I think it’s where you let go. I think there’s also like a reframing of what sex is for you. in that it’s not, it’s not no longer an ejaculatory experience. Yes. It’s actually learning to ride orgasm. If you imagine like a bucking bronco bull that’s let out, riding that out and letting it go all over the, the, the ring.

 

Um, it’s like learning to ride a bucking bronco or like a roller tantric roller coaster of orgasm that takes you up, down, sideways, loops. Triple toe loops, um, once, once it, once you reframe it, reframe your sex and your sexual energy and also reframe what you’re sharing with another person. These are doorways and portals into total transformation of your sex.

 

Yes, that as well. But before, yeah, but you know, with our topic before, um,  before, uh, you use that then for transformation, you actually learn how to  have this infinite energy, how to go for hours. And this again is something, you know, people tell me about what, what they’re looking for specifically with these drugs.

 

And I’m wait a moment, And There is a much more natural way. You’ve already got that energy. It’s just these Isn’t it funny? You know these ancient techniques of Tantra that can That we have almost forgotten and then we needed to invent something like chemsex to To simulate that. Oh, well, that’s just you know, it sounds a little yeah, you see what I mean What else have we got on this list because we’re in our last minutes here of being here on this podcast I think this we can we’re gonna bring up in in in other podcasts as well.

 

It’s this whole complex of  seeking intimacy Connection with others, feeling part of a community that shares something very. Very deep very primal  being Feeling that camaraderie in the group and all of that all things that that that I’ve experienced with Tantra Yeah, so let’s bring us back into then our summary comments and I think one of the things we haven’t touched upon the Tantra offers is I think there’s also something in chemsex that takes you beyond you, beyond the you that operates on a day to day level and gives you feelings of euphoria and expansion and removes inhibition.

 

The one thing I notice chemsex doesn’t talk about is I would call it this state of bliss. And for me,  What it also, you know, what else I don’t hear is chemsex being used as a way to personally grow, to spiritually evolve. I don’t hear chemsex  talking about awakening and consciousness and enlightenment and for me, I think Tantra ticks all of those boxes that you’re talking about plus 20 other boxes in the Tantra as a spiritual practice Will one remind you of the truth of who you really are which is it is bliss is love It’s like the state of love is around us all of the time We are love and it’s just our minds that get in the way of that.

 

And it’s interesting as, as, as a society, we’ve then used chemsex to remind us of who we are when actually there’s other techniques that are going to be more, how can I put this, that are going to be more sustainable to you, more joyful, more, more in your day to day. So for me, Tantra is sort of like the, the, the, the pathway to the permanent changes that people are seeking in chem sex.

 

Yes, and the only thing that I would add is it’s not just about permanent versus temporary. It’s also about, you know, as we said before,  uh,  undoing the things that really hold you back instead of just masking them. Yes. And it’s about transformation. I would say transformation rather than  Overriding something.

 

Yeah temporary fixes. Yes. This is yeah transformations a good so when we you know We talk about Tantra being a journey of personal development personal transformation spiritual growth And one of the things I like about the Tantra that we teach, Ingo, is that there is no doctrine to it. It’s like, we are here to help you find your truth of who you are.

 

And we may put some ideas out there, but at the end of the day, a spiritual practice has to come from you. Has to come from within you. And I think Tantra helps you to unlock that, to find that, and to question yourself and, and, and work on yourself and explore yourself and question yourself. So almost like you take your ego along with you in the spiritual journey, you know, as your being is having these experiences of remembering who you are.

 

It’s almost like carrying your, your poor ego to kind of get on board with the process as well.  Beautifully said. Yeah.  Okay. Any, any last comments from you, Ingo? No. Okay. Well, that’s, that’s, that’s today’s topic of Chemsex. Uh, we hope that’s been useful, um, to, to you dear listeners, as we would say, Ingo. And I just want to reframe that there’s no judgments from Ingo and I about, you know, choices people make.

 

The, the spirit of this podcast is to talk about alternatives. And to help also address some of the issues that men are experiencing, um, in, in chem sex or where they’re finding it unfulfilling. And what, you know, what we’re talking about today is the way that that can, you know, the different answers, different ideas on the table. 

 

Beautiful. We need to talk about two other things just before we finish. One is our gift to you in this podcast. So, um, if you want to join in the discussion for this podcast, you can do that community. tantraforgaymen.  com and in there, in that platform on the left hand side. is a whole library of different tantric practices and lectures.

 

The one that I would point you to, there’s a seven, seven episode, um, kind of multi orgasmic practiced, uh, tutorial. that I created during the pandemic, um, and that would be my gift for you today. If you’re like, Oh, how could I practice some Tantra this afternoon? Um, join the community, have a look on the left hand menu.

 

I think it’s under exercises and in there you’ll find my seven stage multi orgasmic tutorial and try it out, give it a go. See how that, that helps, you know, take you into some of the things that we’re talking about here.  Absolutely.  Lastly, let’s talk about the 11th and 12th of May, um, in London 2024, uh, we are doing a beautiful weekend together, aren’t we, baby?

 

Yes. And that weekend is already, I think we’ve, it’s already half booked. Yes. I think we, we are going to be a group of, we are planning to be a group of probably including you and me and assistants, maybe 25 people or something. Yes. And it’s about half booked. So, uh, Yes. I’m excited. Many new people coming.

 

Uh huh. And this is all about ecstatic surrender. So one thing we’ve never talked about yet in these podcasts is the ecstatic body, how to kind of awaken a natural state of ecstasy in your body. And also to introduce this concept of surrender that you can only experience bliss when you’re in a state of surrender.

 

And yes, we are going to beautifully and magically guide you through different practices to take you like into an ecstatic surrender. So you can kind of start to get a little bit of a taste of what we’re talking about. Yeah, totally. Uh, by the way, half booked. I mean, we are now mid February as we are recording this, this is going to go out a lot.

 

Later, later, it’s actually going to go out probably leading up to the time of doing this workshop, probably be like almost booked by that point, but,  uh, yes, um, I always say these weekends, the, the ideal, especially if you’re new, because they’re gonna, um, gently introduce you to these things with lots of people who are a In the same boat, it’s, it’s, it’s always beautiful to see, uh, you know, if new people come, oh God, am I, you know, am I weird trying this out?

 

Is this, this is so, so far out, you know, far from what I usually do. And then all of a sudden you’re in a community  that all wants the same and let’s just try these things out. And that gives, you know, that, that’s, you will leave. As with a huge group of new friends, you will, you will Ingo. Thank you so much for today.

 

It’s been a joy to share this with you, my sweet love. Thank you, my darling. And we’ll see you next in episode six. All right. Take care. Thank you, baby. Thank you. See you later. Bye bye. Bye. Hi there. So we’re at the end of the podcast. I really hope that you enjoyed this episode. If you want to take part in the free tutorial, multi orgasmic edging practices, you can find that in our app.

 

Also, if you’d like to join in the conversation on this podcast and you want to share something, you can also do that in the app community. tantraforgaymen. com. If you’re looking for information about any of our retreats, or again, another way to listen to this podcast, you can do this at our websites. In our next episode, Ingo and I are gonna be dedicating the whole podcast to questions that you have asked.

 

In the community app.

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